didodikali ([info]trickofthedark) wrote,
@ 2007-07-23 01:48:00
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Entry tags:book reviews

Deathly Spoilers
I have finished reading Book 7. I liked large portions of it and hated large portions of it.

Things wot I wanted BAD and did get.
Lots and lots of Albus hate. Rita's opus. YES! I was screaming with joy. Alberforth is my new hero.

Things wot I wanted BAD and did not get.
I wanted some fucking Slytherin inclusion and redemption. After all those sorting hat songs about unity I think I damn well deserved it and I did not get it. Draco and then Narcissa not giving Harry away was nice, but then Draco turned jerk again. I wanted a Slytherin kid (any one of them, I'm not particular) fighting next to Luna and Neville and Ernie.

Things wot I liked.
It was better than the last few books. Generally exciting and pageturny. No more CAPSLOCK, OMG!

Trelawney. She rocked. Neville rocked awesome. Oh, the love. <3!!!!!! I'm just going to focus on the amazing Neville in the last part of the book, who was so amazing and fabulous that he practically made up for... well, you know.

Things wot I did not like.
Voldemort killed and tortured his followers so willynilly that I do not understand why they weren't betraying him and running away in droves.

Lupin and Tonks, married, pupping. Lupin hating being married, pupping. I was like, OMG, die in a fire. And then they did and I still wasn't happy. =/

That epilogue was crappy. But maybe that wet, sappy, shrill Hermione deserved that ratfink unreliable Ron. Memory-charming/mind-raping your own parents and sending them to Australia is effective- but evil. Her parents should have been offered the same protection as the Dursleys. Were they not because they were Muggles without Harry's influence to help them? *deeply unimpressed with that solution*

The deal with the sword suddenly back in the hat. What?

Harry still loving Albus after all that revelation. Brain-washed much, kid? Wow.

Ultimate conclusion.
Time for fic!

I still maintain that all you have to do to remove a Horcrux scar is get your head sucked on by a dementor. Easy peasy. This whole bullshit with Dumbledore's endless secrets from Harry was more about Albus's control issues then about finding the best way to solve the problem.

Assorted DH essays I have liked.
The Context for Crucio by schemingreader.
Snape's Supposed Great Love by rexluscus.
DH discussions on ethics and violence by slashpine.
If anything is possible, nothing is interesting by janlowell.
Social and Institutional Prejudice in Harry Potter by jncar.
Deathly Shallows by sigune.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070725/cm_csm/ysawyer


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[info]loopyloonyluna
2007-07-22 02:37 pm UTC (link)
I agree very much with your assessment. Although I liked the book there were certainly weak spots, such as the aforementioned theiving sorting hat, Remus as deadbeat dad, and so forth. Hermione probably mind-raped her parents because she didn't trust the Order for protection. Draco should have fought with the DA-as it was his participation in the battle was pathetic. Best to have left him at home if that was the best he could do.

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[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-22 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Hermione probably mind-raped her parents because she didn't trust the Order for protection.

That's a thought. Maybe the Dursleys got killed. We don't know, do we.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]catherinecookmn, 2007-07-24 04:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-24 05:32 pm UTC

[info]janeaverage
2007-07-22 02:53 pm UTC (link)
Jo did my one thing that I have always said I couldn't handle. But I still have to admit this was the best book since GoF. Neville was brilliant, I loved the Luna bits, I laughed more than I expected to, the twins were amazing til... you know... Dudders got his moment (even though I'd've liked a longer/better one), Harry actually bothered to show some appreciation for Dobby, Percy got his redemption (late in the game, and again I'd've liked more), and most importantly, I didn't have to drag myself through the book kicking and screaming ;)

But I too was appalled at the Harry-still-loving-Albus bit. Especially enough to name a kid after him (but then, the entire epilogue was a piece of badfic, so...). I got my hopes up when he was harping on the "they were our age" bit, and then stuff was coming in from more and more reliable sources and Albus himself... and Harry's all, "It was for the greater good, yay!"

Um, no, it was Albus enjoying his chess game. I understand that he couldn't reveal the whole "you'll have to die, but don't worry, you'll come back" bit, as it might have affected Harry's intentions and thus his ability to COME back, but I cannot imagine any logical justification for keeping ALL those secrets.

I realize, though, that I should have expected it, due to Jo's unwavering Dumbledore love in the face of all fan skepticism.

And yes, the complete lack of remorse in Slytherin -- I'd've been happy with a proper Draco redemption, but if not that, would it have been so hard to assign one of the faceless names or nameless faces as a Slytherin Muggle-born and have them run to the DA? JUST ONE? The blatant "all Slytherins are evil" bit being maintained through the end really boggled me, because that was NOT the moral I had thought she was going for previously.

my comment is now probably longer than your post :( sorry, I'm still in a ranty mood over it...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-22 03:03 pm UTC (link)
Long comments welcome!

yeah, I did not like Harry naming his kid Albus ONE BIT.

I understand that he couldn't reveal the whole "you'll have to die, but don't worry, you'll come back" bit, as it might have affected Harry's intentions and thus his ability to COME back

I think Dumbledore ought to have thrown the problem out to the Order. Send Snape to kill Nagini and then retire him from the DeathEaters and bring him back to the Order. Set 50 wizards and witches looking for the object Horcruxes and 20 more trying to remove the scar off Harry without putting him in danger. But, no, Dumbledore liked controlling his secrets, the manipulative old coot.

Draco redemption would have been great, but I'd have taken Pansy or Blaise or Millicent or ANYONE and cuddled it in my heart. Phooey.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]purpleygirl, 2007-07-22 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tekalynn, 2007-07-22 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 01:51 am UTC

[info]azurelunatic
2007-07-22 03:57 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. And the "All Slytherins OUT NOW!" did not help with whichever Slytherins may have been on Dumbledore's side.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-22 04:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janeaverage, 2007-07-22 06:33 pm UTC

[info]catherinecookmn
2007-07-24 04:51 pm UTC (link)
Just because Draco isn't drinking buddies with Harry doesn't mean he's not redeemed. As Snape and Harry showed, you can be on the same side and still hate each other's guts.

Again, JKR's being real here:

1) In the real world, people who've been bad-ass enemies for ever and ever don't suddenly become best pals overnight.

2) She's showing that (Voldie aside) nobody is all good or all evil. Dumbledore and Grindelwald both succumbed to temptation, but Dumbledore at least had Aberforth to drag him back to reality. Narcissa can be both a racist bitch and a loving mother. Luna's dad can be both dedicated to fighting the DEs and desperate to betray Luna's friends to save Luna. Slughorn can be cowardly and yet kind and truly dedicated to meritocracy. Even Wormtail, the betrayer of betrayers, shows mercy at one point (though he pays for it as the silver hand his lord gave him is no respecter of 'good must be repaid with good' fiction conventions).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]janeaverage, 2007-07-24 05:26 pm UTC

[info]omarm_me
2007-07-22 03:22 pm UTC (link)
Draco was such a disappointment. He did help Harry in some ways, but I was expecting more of him. Then again, looking back on all the other books, I'm not that surprised. I think reading fanfic has distorted my view of him too much.

I did love Trelawney as well :) And I was happy in being proven right in trusting Snape! :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-22 03:30 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, if Snape had turned out to be Voldemort's man- ugh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]ravenclaw_eric
2007-07-22 04:41 pm UTC (link)
While I understand your concerns about Hermione wrt her parents, Hermione did know them better than we do. And if I were in the UK with Voldy racketing around, I'd want all of my dear ones to take a nice long vacation. "See? I bought you all this lovely all-expenses-paid trip to New Zealand! You'll get to stay on a real live New Zealand farm! This nice Mister Wal Footrot and his chum next door, Mister Socrates Windgrass, are looking forward to meeting you!"

Hmmm...that gives me an idea for a crossover that'll really get me lynched...Footrot Flats meets Harry Potter? Cooch would so hit it right off with Luna, I think...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]tekalynn
2007-07-22 09:27 pm UTC (link)
What bothered me, though, was the implication that her parents didn't have any choice about it. They're intelligent adults, there's no reason Hermione couldn't sit down and explain the situation. I would like to think that she did, and the decision was consensual, but the way Hermione talks about it makes me think that she changed their minds and memories entirely on her own volition. That deeply bothers me.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tekalynn, 2007-07-23 01:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]catherinecookmn, 2007-07-24 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-24 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]catherinecookmn, 2007-07-24 05:39 pm UTC

[info]skjam
2007-07-22 04:46 pm UTC (link)
The Sorting Hat, which if I recall correctly still has some of Godric Gryffindor (and the other founders)'s personality in there, goes by the Wizarding rules of possession, rather than the Goblin rules.

I imagine there's a really ticked-off goblin plotting vengeance at that point--but since Neville isn't the main character, we never see how that pans out.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]tekalynn
2007-07-22 09:28 pm UTC (link)
Fanfic! This could get fascinating.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2007-07-22 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Do not have livejournal account, but do have comments.

Finished the (yes omg so unsatisfying and bad-fanfictiony) epilogue and was almost hurt by it, but I've had a full day now to rationalize it. Could Harry naming (note, not his firstborn son, but his second child) after Albus and Severus be Jo's way of saying he'd moved on, grown up, and forgiven the bastards?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
2007-07-22 05:18 pm UTC (link)
Further note, since I can't edit the past post, to say that it is possible to forgive people who don't really deserve to be forgiven. Also that Al was probably born about 10 years after Voldie bit it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 02:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiferet, 2007-07-23 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 05:19 am UTC

[info]katiescarlet
2007-07-22 05:37 pm UTC (link)
I was like, OMG, die in a fire. And then they did and I still wasn't happy. =/

LMAO! Sorry, it's not funny, but the whole "die in a fire" bit, and then....Bwahahah!

(Reply to this)


[info]isiscolo
2007-07-22 05:59 pm UTC (link)
I am surprised that you did not list "Dudley turns out okay after all" because I thought of you when that happened!

And I ♥ Aberforth SO MUCH.

And the epilogue made me want to hurl.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 02:19 am UTC (link)
Well, Dudley's interaction in the park in OOTP pleased me more. That seemed almost like my rememberances of sibling teasing, obnoxious but not cruelly meant and with an element of each of them seeming to care about the other's opinion under the obnoxiousness. This book Dudley was pleasant but really, really, really depicted as a lumbering stupid-head. He formerly had an ability to insult people or defend himself with words (OOTP p. 14), and that mental quickness seemed totally gone. :\ But yes, it could have been worse. I am glad he did not turn out to be written off as evil.

Aberforth was amazing. Wow. <3!

God, yes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]heavenscalyx, 2007-07-24 02:42 pm UTC

[info]biichan
2007-07-22 06:07 pm UTC (link)
I wanted some fucking Slytherin inclusion and redemption.

HOLY FUCKING YES.

...well, at least we got Human Dudley.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 02:21 am UTC (link)
*sigh*

Yeah, Human Dudley was nice.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]purpleygirl
2007-07-22 06:47 pm UTC (link)
I still maintain that all you have to do to remove a Horcrux scar is get your head sucked on by a dementor.

I thought the same thing. Why else would Dementors be in the series but for some interesting resolution at the end? The entire last quarter seemed like "Oh, I can't be bothered now it's nearly all over -- I'll just make it as messy and inconsistent as possible." O_o

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 06:25 pm UTC (link)
We never got to find out what happened with the dementors and the ministry either. Hmmm.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]dancing_moon
2007-07-22 06:59 pm UTC (link)
Well, I dunno, I thought Hermiones solution was effective if brutal. If the Order couldn't/wouldn't protect her - and looking at what happened with a lot of people, they probably didn't have the resources - what was she going to do?

I wanted a Slytherin kid (any one of them, I'm not particular) fighting next to Luna and Neville and Ernie.

Yes dammit! If she had just mentioned "3 kids standing underneath the Slytherin banner in the room of requirement" we would have seen they were not all teh ebil. There have been "mudbloods" in Slytherin, someone should have done something!

Neville and his grandmother were great ^_^

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 01:50 am UTC (link)
what was she going to do? Talk to her parents and allow them the dignity of free will and let them take their chances as they chose. Since she gave that freedom to take risks to herself she should have extended the favour to her parents.

"3 kids standing underneath the Slytherin banner in the room of requirement" Sure, I would have happily taken that crumb. I don't even need to know thier names. Yeah!

Gran was righteous! <3!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]tekalynn, 2007-07-23 04:52 am UTC

[info]amberdiceless
2007-07-22 07:17 pm UTC (link)
I wanted some fucking Slytherin inclusion and redemption. After all those sorting hat songs about unity I think I damn well deserved it and I did not get it. Draco and then Narcissa not giving Harry away was nice, but then Draco turned jerk again. I wanted a Slytherin kid (any one of them, I'm not particular) fighting next to Luna and Neville and Ernie.

Well, she did throw us one small bone in that department: Horace Slughorn helped lead the charge of families and Hogsmeade-folk with Charlie Weasley, and dueled Voldemort alongside McGonagall and Kingsley. If he remains Head of Slytherin House post-canon, perhaps that and the truth about Snape will make an impression on the Slytherin students.

There's also the fact that Lucius and Narcissa stood by their boy and gave up trying to get back in Voldemort's good graces--I mean, they could have denounced the kid, and nothing was stopping them from lying low during the battle and grabbing a wand from a fallen enemy (or ally,) but they weren't interested in anything but retrieving Draco. (Who, whatever else we can say about him, seemed genuinely grieved over losing his friend Crabbe.) And nobody grabbed Lucius and trotted him back off to Azkaban at the end, which was perhaps foolish of them, but given how important the theme of parents' love for their children has been throughout the books, it makes a certain kind of sense. Clearly Slytherins are not altogether immune to that "power that Voldemort knows not" and its redemptive influences, even if they tend to be late bloomers in that department.

One other tiny thing that I liked, which I'm probably reading too much into, was that Narcissa didn't just not give Harry away: she was gentle with him. She didn't have to be, and I like to think that she did it not because of Draco, but just because she was a mother and Harry was a kid the same age as her own.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 02:23 am UTC (link)
I am grateful for those crumbs and agree that they are important. But I still wanted a Slytherin kid boldly on the side of light.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]catherinecookmn, 2007-07-24 05:55 pm UTC

[info]tekalynn
2007-07-22 09:21 pm UTC (link)
Lupin and Tonks, married, pupping. Lupin hating being married, pupping. I was like, OMG, die in a fire. And then they did and I still wasn't happy. =/

I shouldn't laugh. But you summed it up so beautifully.

I mean, this is Lupin, for god's sake. My sensation on learning that he's dead along with his wife (who *used* to kick arse) should not be one of faint relief.

On the other hand, he did show up with Sirius, looking much happier. So my ship can finally sail happily along in the afterlife.

Re Chapter 3: OMG I love my Big D! That made me *very* happy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]calanthe_b
2007-07-23 01:48 am UTC (link)
My sensation on learning that he's dead along with his wife (who *used* to kick arse) should not be one of faint relief.

~g~ You only felt faint relief? I almost fainted from relief!

The entire Lupin plotline just left me staggered--I thought it was one of the worst things about the whole book. I'm not quite sure how she managed to take one of her most complex, interesting, adult acharacters, with a whole backstory about issues of integrity and friendship and trying so hard to do the right thing, and turn him into someone about whom I actively failed to care (I never did care much about Tonks), in the space of the time it takes to say Huh?. But she did.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tekalynn, 2007-07-23 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]loopyloonyluna, 2007-07-23 01:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dryaunda, 2007-07-23 06:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-23 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dryaunda, 2007-07-23 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tekalynn, 2007-07-23 06:54 pm UTC

[info]jennifer3dtd
2007-07-23 07:39 am UTC (link)
Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Dumbledore were so unlikable in this book. And poor Snape, what a thankless path he had to tread. Hopefully Lily is a bit tired of James and gives Snape a little love in the ghost world, eh? (After all, James comes off as a prat, too, and Snape worked so hard to save her boy.... that's got to give her a bit of a think, yes?)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 08:01 am UTC (link)
Yeah, when it comes to personality, Luna and Neville for the win.

Oh, that is better. Lily dumps James for Severus in the afterlife. MMM! I like!

And I vote that after Harry leaves that Albus cannot leave the limbo of the trainstation until he picks up that squalling baby and carries it on himself. But he doesn't want to. When Harry and Alberforth and the other people Albus knows finally come through the train station on their way to elsewhere, none of them can see or hear Albus. And since Albus is such a shit, he sits around and waits, hoping someone else will pick up the baby for him for a couple of centuries- but no one can see it or hear it except him. He is there a long, long time.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]jennifer3dtd, 2007-07-30 08:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trickofthedark, 2007-07-30 10:45 am UTC

[info]cp_jacksparrow
2007-07-23 05:28 pm UTC (link)
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................You have some serious issues to work out.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-23 06:22 pm UTC (link)
Isn't it great how different people can have different interpretations of the same thing? It makes the world such a varied and interesting place, full of wonders and people with unusual and nifty perspectives! With such amazing variation, none of us shall ever be bored! Yay! =D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]marionros
2007-07-23 09:55 pm UTC (link)
"This whole bullshit with Dumbledore's endless secrets from Harry was more about Albus's control issues then about finding the best way to solve the problem."

Hm.. I immediatly thought about Wizarding Chess, where the gamepieces move themselves across the board and blow other pieces to smithereens. Dumbledore just likes his chessboard to be bigger, that's all, and he likes his pieces to be of real flesh and blood. More sporting, that way...

Ick! "The epitome of goodness" my Aunt Fanny!!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]trickofthedark
2007-07-24 05:48 am UTC (link)
That chess with people thing. So true. Eeeeeeeeeeeeew.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]heavenscalyx
2007-07-24 02:51 pm UTC (link)
Harry is, apparently, the Bipolar Boy Who Lived. I was reading the obsession-with-hallows section to Akycha and I just kept saying, "He's in the middle of a manic episode. A weeklong manic episode! A monthlong manic episode! Someone medicate this boy!"

I loathe the fact that Hermione Is Always Wrong. And shrill. And weepy. The only decent characterization was the fact that she thought faster than anyone and was capable of lying under Bellatrix's Cruciatus.

I loathe, in fact, pretty much every aspect of female characterization in this book. I abhor the racism (Akycha pointed out the goblin "Indian-giving" stuff as I read it, and as I was reading it, I noticed that the goblins are "swarthy" to go along with it). The saccharine epilogue made me want to spit, or throw the book across the room, or something.

HELLO! Boy Who Lived spent 10 years of his life, helpless and abused, and the subsequent 7 years of his life being pursued, lied to, manipulated, threatened with death, and injured. He was evincing some serious, heavy-duty mental disturbance in this book. Unless he spent the 6 years between the end of the war and Ginny's first pregnancy in some serious therapy, I expect that he's a wildly unpredictable and abusive husband and father, and likely to wander back to Dumbledore's tomb in about 10 years' time to pick up the Elder Wand and go off to "make the Wizarding world right again" by becoming the next Dark Lord. Who's to say that wasn't Dumbledore's goal to start with?

This book is the epitome of why I think her worldbuilding, in general, is interesting, but why I prefer much of the fanon to her canon.

ARGH.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dameroksanne
2007-07-25 10:12 pm UTC (link)
you make a excellent point. We are talking about a group of people who live until 1)something kills them 2) they are really really really old.

What kind of counseling can they get for the experiences they have? C'mon, Luna's mother accidentally killed herself in front of her own daughter. Arianna was kept by her protective family because they were afraid that of the half life she would have in St. Mungoes. This pretty much tells us Kendra did not think the level of care they would give the child was very good.

It tells me that St. Mungoes was not any better in 1890 for treating schizophrenia and child abuse victims than the muggle institutions of that time.

Nowadays we have counselors in schools who are qualified to deal with grief and abuse. I think it interesting that none appear in the Potterverse.....particularly for Longbottom and Harry who suffered terribly. Come to think of it, Lord Voldemort could have used some help when Dumbledore suspected him of torturing other children and animals (the rabbit incident!)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]heavenscalyx, 2007-07-26 02:16 pm UTC

[info]fukai_mori
2007-07-26 04:40 am UTC (link)
What I want to know about is...

What's with the blooming baby??? Or baby thing as she didn't describe it as human.


I can accept Dumbledore as human, Hermione as caring, and Ron as being falliable. There are some serious flaws, and I was just confused about the epilogue. However, I do like their serious moral failings, and how they managed to suck.

Hermione may be brave when it comes to the real deal (Bellatrix) but stunted emotionally. Ron acted like any sane 17 year old would act. If they were all perfect and did the right thing and were brave and strong the whole time, making constantly correct decisions, I might have projectile vomited.

Though I do have to agree with you on the Lupin thing--- Where'd that come from??? OOC.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]fukai_mori
2007-07-26 04:48 am UTC (link)
Oh.
Voldemort.
Hmm. I feel stupid. The rest stands though.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]slythwolf
2007-07-29 03:38 am UTC (link)
Voldemort killed and tortured his followers so willynilly that I do not understand why they weren't betraying him and running away in droves.

It's like an abusive marriage. They're in the most danger when they try to leave and they know it.

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